Meteorite Deaths? Interesting old article-read

by Paul Heinrich
Tue Dec 29 23:33:54 EST 2009

Susan K. Webb wrote:

"Most of the bulk of my post involved the old Chinese
recorded incidents. Lewis took those from the Yau,
Weissman and Yeomans' paper:"

Yau, K., P. Weissman, and D. Yeomans, 1994, Meteorite
Falls in China and Some Related Human Casualty Events.
Meteoritics. vol. 29, pp. 864-871.

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1994Metic..29..864Y

PDF file at: http://tiny.cc/ChineseFalls or

http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-iarticle_query?1994Metic..29..864Y&data_type=PDF_HIGH&whole_paper=YES&type=PRINTER&filetype=.pdf

Thank you for the citation and reference to the Chinese
falls. It is a rather interesting and very useful paper.

Webb also wrote;

"Paul's response suggests that field work
could be profitable if the site could be
located. That took me by surprise; I assumed
too much time had passed. It's an exciting
thought."

I agree with you that this is a very interesting thought.
It the case of the reported falls that involve just a few
stones, it highly unlikely that much of anything could
be found.

However, in case of certain reported falls, in which
it appears that thousands of pieces might have fell,
I think even after a few hundred years, that there is
a fair chance that there might still be meteorites that
can be found. I suspect, if a person took into account
what geoarchaeologists call "site formation processes"
and used what is known about the geomorphology and
geomorphologic history of the area, a good geomorphologist
/ geologist / geoarchaeology could make specific
predictions as to where any meteorites from a fall
eventually came to rest and where to best look for them.
It is matter of using the enormous amount of knowledge
already gathered about geomorphology, surficial
landscape processes, and "site formation processes" to
predict the best places to look for meteorites deposited
from a possible fall.

Of course after several hundred years, any meteorites found
would likely be too weathered to be of any interest to
collectors. However, I suspect that scientifically useful
information can still be collected despite how badly
weathered the specimens might be. Of course, any search
for such reported falls would not be easy and there would
be no guarantee of success.

Looking at Yau et al. (1994), the reported 1490 fall, in my
opinion, might be a promising candidate for a search for
meteorites because of both the reported number of objects
and the reported size, 1.0 to 1.5 kg, of individual pieces.
Unfortunately, at this time, I cannot determine what the
modern name for Ch'ing-yang, China and its exact location
is at this time given the different and changing ways that
Chinese names have been and are transliterated into English.

Best Wishes,

Paul H.

Meteorite deaths

by Paul Heinrich
Tue Dec 29 13:25:31 EST 2009

Grondine asked:

"Has anyone ever thought of going to those fall sites
in China and hunting them? Or doing archeology in
the case of the larger falls?"

I have not heard of anyone attempting to find evidence
of the larger falls. However, that does not mean much
because usually the results of such research when it is
negative (nobody finds anything) is typically not published
simply because either the authors or editors do not
consider such negative results as being significance
enough to publish.

It is a very good question for which I do not have an answer.

Yours,

Paul H.

Meteorite Deaths? Interesting old article-read

by Paul Heinrich
Tue Dec 29 12:38:10 EST 2009

One of the instances of a reported meteorite fall that
resulted in human deaths that Sterling K. Webb quoted:

"The most startling is a report of an event in early
1490 in Ch'ing-yang, Shansi, in which many people
were killed when stones "fell like rain." Of the three
known surviving reports of this event, one says that
"over 10,000 people" were killed, and one says that
"several tens of thousands" were killed."

Does anyone know where Ch'ing-yang, Shansi is in China?

I ask this question because, unlike many of the other
alleged meteorite falls reported to have caused either
injury or death to humans, this fall, as reported, would
have been extensive enough to have left behind some
sort of "findable" physical evidence in the form of
actual meteorites. Applying the basic principles of
geomorphology, Quaternary geology, and site formation
processes as developed by archaeologists, a well-
trained Quaternary geologist, archaeological geologist,
or geomorphologists should be able to locate the
landforms and colluvial or fluvial deposits of the right
age in which any of these numerous meteorites would
have been concentrated and either them or their
weathered remains possibly preserved

For example, on landforms that predate 1490, the
meteorites would have been buried by bioturbation.
As the local soils were churned by farming and
soil fauna, any meteorites that would have fallen on
the land surface would have eventually sunk to the
base of the soil's biomantle. As a result, they would
be concentrated as a layer at the base of bioturbation
called a "carpedolith". In gullies and other exposures,
they would occur as a "stone line" at the base of the
biomantle. Also, using what is known about the
archaeology and geomorphology of the area, a
person could locate the buried land surfaces or
deposits of the right age and origin that should contain
these meteorites, if they indeed exist.

This is the sort of methodology I discuss in relationship
to the alleged tektites found in Rapides Parish, Louisiana
in "Reevaluation of Tektites Reported from. Rapides
Parish, Louisiana" at either:

http://www.lgs.lsu.edu/deploy/uploads/Summer_09_LGS_Newsletter.pdf or

http://www.scribd.com/doc/18698759/Alleged-Tektites-From-Rapides-Parish-Louisiana

A hypothetical stone line can be seen in "Animation on
Dynamic Denudation/Biomantle Evolution" at;

https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/jdomier/www/temp/biomantle.swf

and discussed in:

Johnson, D. L., 1989, Subsurface Stone Lines, Stone Zones,
Artifact-Manuport Layers, and Biomantles Produced by
Bioturbation via Pocket Gophers (Thomomys Bottae).
American Antiquity. vol. 54, no. 2, pp. 370-389

http://www.jstor.org/pss/281712

and Johnson, D. L., 1990, Biomantle Evolution and the
Redistribution of Earth Materials and Artifacts. Soil
Science. vol. 149, no. 2, pp. 84-102.

http://journals.lww.com/soilsci/Abstract/1990/02000/Biomantle_Evolution_and_the_Redistribution_of.4.aspx

Meteorites will behave very much like the artifacts discussed
in the above paper.

Yours,

Paul H.